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Post by Rosco-P on Nov 12, 2017 20:28:32 GMT -5
I find it incredibly sad - but a sign of the times we are living in - that Wes has to post a warning for Hickory Run: "Warning: There is Christianity, faith, and religion in this story."
Once upon a time those who didn't want to read that would . . . not read it! But in today's world, they're just as likely to take out a law suit complaining that Christ has no place in a fictional story!
Give em heaps, Wes! We're with you!
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Post by Boyd Percy on Nov 12, 2017 20:51:57 GMT -5
He did the same with Down by the Riverside. After this book comes out next weekend, if anyone wants to know which chapters are non-religious, I can provide a list like I did for the earlier book.
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Post by Wes on Nov 12, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5
Just to make things clear, I'm writing fiction about a person who is a serious Christian, and not writing Christian fiction. There is a difference. I try to not let my characters in the Nanci stories get up on their soapboxes very much, but they have to a little bit from time to time.
However, there are enough people who are sensitive about the issue that I feel like I ought to give a warning, just to be fair.
-- Wes
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Post by Driver54 on Nov 13, 2017 0:11:54 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to this story and I'm an atheist. There is no agenda to the 'Nanci' stories anymore than there was to the 'Debbie Elkstalker'parts of "Square One." It's the auto racing stories that send me running in the opposite direction.
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Post by Paul Peterson on Nov 13, 2017 7:43:56 GMT -5
I'm looking forward to Hickory and just put in my order for the Kindle edition. The thing that I like about the series is that none of the religion whether Christianity or Debbie Elkstalker's beliefs seems forced. The characters are people struggling with their beliefs just like a real person does. I don't really trust anyone who does't struggle with their beliefs regardless of the religion. If I read the anouncement correctly, the books about Nanci are the start of a new series. In regards to Driver54's comments, I'm just sorry that there are apparently no more books in the pipeline for the Bullring Days series.
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Post by howard on Nov 16, 2017 2:46:32 GMT -5
I also found the Christian bit in DBTR a bit too much for my personal taste and it has been one of Wes' very few books that I haven't gone back to read again (I've read many of them several times). But after the announcement of the next book I went back this week and read it again anyway to refresh my memory of the story till now. Folks, it's a great story, you can just jump over the Christian stuff as you read, and it's full of details about all the Dawnwalker characters that I'd forgotten. I'm sure Hickory Run will be similar. -- howard
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Post by Leo on Nov 17, 2017 18:56:24 GMT -5
I have to admit when DBTR was announced with that warning that I was concerned. But found it a compelling story; I recall thinking that I wished I knew people who really seemed to have such a visceral belief -- about anything, really -- as Nanci was showing.
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Post by Jon on Nov 19, 2017 13:24:19 GMT -5
The question still remains whether a disclaimer is needed. Other books have dealt with prostitution and homosexuality. Those books did not carry disclaimers to the best of my knowledge. If any book would needs(ed) a disclaimer, they would be "Magic Carpet", "Hat Trick" and "Girl in the Mirror" or most of the "Bradford Exiles" series. Other characters in Spearfish Lake tales have been "openly" homosexual.
Do Wes's readers expect Christianity (deep, religious type) to be an aberrant behavior? I say no, just as much prostitution or homosexuality were not. Is Christianity in e-books so different that it could offend someone? All I suggest, is a quick internet search for "porn". In my case, that is how I found "Snowplow Extra" on Stories On Line and later the Spearfish Lake Tales story assemblage.
What disgusts me is the hypocrisy in the religious and gun communities, in the evangilism of their views and how "good" their views compared to society in general. This hypocrisy is evidenced in recent political and news events. I have been repeatedly prostlyized (sp?) by coworkers on both religion and guns. I have a passing interest in both, but no desire to delve further.
I say no to a disclaimer or warning. Wes's treatment of other behaviors has been nonjudgmental and fair.
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Post by Paul Peterson on Nov 19, 2017 21:54:01 GMT -5
I would have to agree with Jon that no disclaimer should really be necessary. I have to point out though that the "hypocrisy" he mentions is not limited to the religious and gun communities. The anti-gun crowd and the LGBT communities are just as bad or even worse in some cases. People need to stop being so critical of others opinions and learn to laugh at themselves as well as others.
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Post by Greg Taylor on Nov 19, 2017 22:37:52 GMT -5
The absolute cruelty is that there is a link at the bottom of chapter 1 (after a minor "cliff hanger") leading to chapter 2 that opens to a page not found !!! Not fair!!! (Typed in my whiny font: LOL.) I guess I'll have to wait till Wednesday!! Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
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Post by Wes on Nov 19, 2017 23:08:50 GMT -5
Sorry, forgot to fix that.
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Post by howard on Nov 20, 2017 21:51:18 GMT -5
Interesting discussion. Agree with Jon that no disclaimer should be necessary. I'd be interested to know if the disclaimer is a result of comments that Wes received in particular regarding DBTR.
I think the difference between DBTR and other books in the Bradford Exiles series like Magic Carpet, Hat Trick, or The Girl in the Mirror, is that the other stories are only narratives. Yes, the subject matter might be controversial (and I agree that Wes treats them all with sensitivity and in a non-judgmental way), but they just tell stories of some people and their experiences in controversial activities. In DBTR, on the other hand, it's not just a story about Nanci and her faith and where she's going with it, rather Nanci particularly and also Preach get up on soapboxes and preach, and the sermons become an integral part of the story.
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Post by Col on Nov 23, 2017 17:37:26 GMT -5
Thanks Wes, as usual a great book.
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Post by John Mead on Nov 25, 2017 21:41:32 GMT -5
Background: Unitarian Minister father, lesbian sister, and I've been Unitarian, Bahai, LDS, Charismatic Evangelical, and a couple of others, currently unaffiliated Humanist; and I've read a ton of theological and history of religion works.
Wes has done a very good job of presenting believers from a large number of faith communities without presenting any of them as the One True Way or inately preferable over others. I haven't noticed any biases. He's pretty accurate in how he's presenting them, based upon my experiences. They've acted in a manner consistent with their beliefs.
He's done a good job of showing that while there are those who abuse their positions within faith communities, there are many who don't, and are indeed sincere in their faith.
He's presented a good cross-section of the varying levels of Interventionist God that different segments of Christianity embrace, from "It's all God's Plan" to "God's got a plan, but the details are up to us."; indeed, some of Wes' representations have made me uncomfortable due to my disagreements with the philosophy described, but that's due to how accurately he's presented them; I'm a strong believer in Free Will, which requires a fairly non-interventionist God, and at times Preach seems too Deterministic for my comfort.
I've really enjoyed the two-and-a-portion novels so far focusing on Nanci's spiritual journey; that's partially because the part of me that is still attracted to Christianity agrees with her, pretty much all the way down the line.
And, oh yes, it's absolutely criminal what so many mainline congregations can do to hymns. *shudder* "Slowlier is Holier" bleeh! Sing like you believe! Make a joyfull noise unto your God, OK? Don't just stand there like a lump, move around a little! [Yes, like I said, I was a Charismatic Evangelical for a bit; the idea that singing in church is a form of worship and expressing your love for your God stuck, even when some of the rest didn't]
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Post by Mocha1120 on Dec 6, 2017 19:03:48 GMT -5
Nanci is the type of pastor I would like to have for my pastor and my friend. She lives her religion without trying to force others to live by her religious beliefs. I would much rather follow someone who leads by example rather than trying to force their beliefs down my throat while they violate their own rules. For example Roy Moore.
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